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Post by smoothmat on Sept 16, 2011 22:02:18 GMT -5
A fellow has made a flaperons on his sonerai I. claims it stall is below 40mph. He has posted a drawing of the mod on his website. Interesting.
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Post by o2koold on Sept 16, 2011 22:05:11 GMT -5
Do you have the link to the video and his website? Scott R
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hans
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by hans on Sept 17, 2011 9:23:26 GMT -5
A fellow has made a flaperons on his sonerai I. claims it stall is below 40mph. He has posted a drawing of the mod on his website. Interesting. doing that will increase the pitching moment of the wing when the flaperons are both deployed downwards. Did he need to increase the elevator to cope with that or did he restrict the CG-range to keep things safe? EDIT: The video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZYJSIfAc0MThe website: ilmailu.org/flaperon/ Hans
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Post by smoothmat on Sept 17, 2011 9:40:11 GMT -5
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Post by smoothmat on Sept 17, 2011 9:49:21 GMT -5
Maybe that drawing is not the same as the pics in the post from hans.
So, the flap lever controls is linked to what under the seat? The aileron control tubes and bell crank are all still stock.
Matt
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4trade
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by 4trade on Sept 17, 2011 10:17:20 GMT -5
That Finnish Sonerai 1 wing with flaperons is build by Sonerai 2 plans and there is GAW-1 or GAW-2 airfoil too. So, wing span is bigger and that GAW airfoil is high lift airfoil, not like Sonerai 1 or 2 that use 64A212.
I am going to EFNU tomorrow and see that plane myself.
Hans, can you send some kind of info how big is h-stab and elevator at Sonerai 1. I am going to take some measurements anyhow at this plane.
Smoothmat: That ilmailu.org is Finnish aviation forum and that drawing is my topic at Sonerai 2. It has nothing to do with that Sonerai 1 with flaperons.
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Post by smoothmat on Sept 17, 2011 10:29:40 GMT -5
Oh i get it now. When that crank under the controls is rotated it lifts the rear of the control shaft. The whole control shaft tilts upwards, lowering the aielerons. It might make the aileraon linkages at a funny angle??
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4trade
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by 4trade on Sept 17, 2011 10:33:32 GMT -5
That flaperon mechanism is clever on. Front of that torque tube assembly is actually hinge and flaperon operation handle only rise or lower that torque tube assembly at rear under seat...
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hans
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by hans on Sept 17, 2011 15:21:19 GMT -5
Oh i get it now. When that crank under the controls is rotated it lifts the rear of the control shaft. The whole control shaft tilts upwards, lowering the aielerons. It might make the aileraon linkages at a funny angle?? Indeed, that is what I gathered from the pictures. If the rear of the torque tube is mounted into a vertical guide/slot, no 'funny aileron angles' will be created, as in that case a vertical tilt of the rear of the torque tube is the only possible movement. And again indeed: the drawing on that forum page shows an implementation for a Fowler-flap like actuation, not the implementation that was shown on the pictures.
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hans
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Posts: 166
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Post by hans on Sept 17, 2011 15:23:12 GMT -5
That Finnish Sonerai 1 wing with flaperons is build by Sonerai 2 plans and there is GAW-1 or GAW-2 airfoil too. So, wing span is bigger and that GAW airfoil is high lift airfoil, not like Sonerai 1 or 2 that use 64A212. I am going to EFNU tomorrow and see that plane myself. Hans, can you send some kind of info how big is h-stab and elevator at Sonerai 1. I am going to take some measurements anyhow at this plane. Smoothmat: That ilmailu.org is Finnish aviation forum and that drawing is my topic at Sonerai 2. It has nothing to do with that Sonerai 1 with flaperons. I don't have access to Sonerai-I information, only to that of Sonerai-II. If the wing sections is indeed a GAW section, my concern about wing pitching moment is even more valid, as this section has a much higher pitching moment than the standard Sonerai section has.
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4trade
Junior Member
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Post by 4trade on Sept 17, 2011 15:47:11 GMT -5
I know, that moment is twice as much than original airfoil + some extra for those flaperons. That plane has been flying long time here. Plane is build fine and it fly well too. That´s the reason i want to see it and talk to the new owner. I ask that CG limits at this plane too.
I am going to measure that stab/ elevator tomorrow and check Sonerai 2 plans if that one is build to S2 plans too, like wing.
I think somebody here may have some interest that kind of flaperon mod´s too. I post here what i find out tomorrow.
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Post by n3480h on Sept 17, 2011 16:49:16 GMT -5
Is it just me, or does this seem like a solution looking for a problem? However, it is always interesting to learn more and see what others are doing with a Sonerai. Thank you 4Trade. I got a kick out of seeing a pic of my airframe (and Jeff's and Scott's) on a Finnish site. Tom
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4trade
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by 4trade on Sept 18, 2011 3:06:55 GMT -5
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Post by smoothmat on Sept 18, 2011 8:55:52 GMT -5
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Post by n3480h on Sept 18, 2011 9:24:35 GMT -5
I see your concern Matt, but when properly mounted, the spherical center of most heim bearings will allow about -10+10° "misalignment" in their transverse axis, and I don't think the fully extended flap position will raise the torque tube to an angle that might cause an issue. Both ailerons should still move equally at the fully extended angle.
Like Hans, I would rather have more control on the torque tube side-to-side movement. Perhaps there are bushings we cannot see in the pictures. Pitching angle may be an issue, but we still have to fly the airplane stop to stop. I doubt the short chord of these flaperons would produce much more pitching moment than a Cessna 172.
All in all, kind of a neat design and thanks again 4Trade for sharing this with us.
Tom
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