URGENT - The future of the Sonerai Community

[ldhcrh]

Sounds like a good place to start! Thanks for saving this valuable asset for us builders!!!!

Larry

[len]

gentlemen,
I joined this site, and the old one, to learn all I could about building and flying the Sonerai. I 'm in favor of doing whatever to keep it going. I"m not sure exactly what got some members pantys in a knot but if the site can stay focused on flying and building the Sonerai airplane than I'll certainly stay a member and maybe get the S1 I'm dreaming about built

[daddo2]

Motion seconded!

[maddog]

I help maintain our clubs EAA website that they provided for all Chapters.
www.1156.eaachapter.org/
There are ways to limit viewing of different topics, add pictures, comment on pictures...
add different pages , add a store to sell memberships, hats, and t-shirts (on the to-do list)
Just saying that it is all the things that are needed to run a website and it is hosted by the EAA. Now not everyone that wants to join our website is an EAA member, but we can add anyone that wants to participate.

I think that use of this availability may be a good start to the next S net.!

mb

[splischke]

My turn.

It seems the majority of people are in favor of using the EAA Forums for the new home. This is fine and you won't need an IT Professional like me to maintain it. And any frivolous lawsuit will most likely be filed against the multimillion dollar EAA organization and not Joe the poster or the Admins. EAA is a good umbrella to stand under.

But not everything about the EAA Forums may be rosy. I haven't checked so I may be wrong but EAA Forums may have quotas on the amount of disk space that can be used. Sonerai.net used 1.2GB. Likewise, EAA Forums may not allow the Community to post thousands of photos like Sonerai.net did.

I'll put this on the table... I will donate the sonerai.net domain to a formal Sonerai Community organization. I will also give the Community all content (not software) on Sonerai.net. This includes 2,500+ images in the Sonerai Gallery and 17,000 posts in the forum. The EAA IT should be able to mass-upload the images to EAA Forums from a DVD. However, importing the 17,000 posts to EAA Forums could be a much more complicated endeavor since Sonerai.net uses a relational database that spans many tables. But there is hope if EAA Forums is running software that can convert databases from other forums.

All this for free. I kept Sonerai.net free and I hope this tradition continues.

-Scott

[Schmleff]

Thanks Scott!

[pttim]

Thanks Scott for the donation , Jeff for spearheading a move forward plan, and everyone else who has taken the time to comment and bring idea's to the table. I will support in any way shape or form. It seems these days anyone can be sued for anything so a cautious methodical approach to regrouping in prudent.



Tim

[n3480h]

Scott, that is the best news I've heard in weeks! Thank you.

At the risk of rubbing fur the wrong way, I have concerns about the concept of step-childing the Sonerai site into the EAA site. I am an EAA member, but - I find the EAA forums very limited in capability, very slow, and generally not user friendly. Granted, I do not run a state of the art computer here, nor do I have high speed internet. But I suspect many of us would rather spend that money on aluminum and fabric. Don't get me wrong, I love EAA and appreciate all that it does - and I support it. Its just that I seldom visit their forums because I don't find them user friendly.

Personally, I would not have a problem with the site based in Germany, Scotland, or another country where you can't file suit if someone sneezes.

With sincere apologies to those I may have offended.

Tom

[o2koold]

Thanks Scott, this is great news the Sonerai.net has a chance to come back in some form. Keeping free sounds like a small price to pay for the use of the domain.
I am with Tom on this one. I love the EAA and I am very active with my local chapter. But I am a Sonerai builder, owner and someday soon, flyer. I feel the design family deserves it's own group, managed by people that are passionate about the design. This was what caused Sonerai.net to emerge from the Yahoo Group 5 or 6 years age. -We can not thank you enough Scott.
Scott R

[wbpace]

Scott, it might be helpful if you could give us a sense of how much of your time it took to maintain sonerai.net. The reason I ask is that, depending on the magnitude of the time commitment involved, it could be difficult to find volunteers to do the same. I think most folks underestimate how much time it took.

And, along with everyone else, I want to thank you for your service.

Bill

[hans]

Scott & others have valid concerns when it comes to having EAA host our new home...

Hans

[splischke]

Oct 7, 2011 21:41:57 GMT -5 wbpace said:

Scott, it might be helpful if you could give us a sense of how much of your time it took to maintain sonerai.net.

If the site was humming along and there were no software issues, I spent only 5 hours a months on general maintenance like account approvals, creating on-site and off-site backups, resetting passwords, keeping SPAMMERs out, etc. But it was a very rare month when something didn't happen that caused this number to dramatically increase. For instance, if software patching was required to mitigate a new exploit or vulnerability, I spent 10 hours a month. This happened about every other month. On a bad month when a software patch caused the site to no longer function correctly and I had to search the web for solutions and/or write code to correct the issue, I spent up to 30 hours a month. Fortunately 30 hour months happened only one or two times a year.

I also spent over 100 hours over a year (not in a month) writing and refining code to detect when Sonerai.net was being penetrated by hackers or malicious scripts. This was time well spent since my access logs showed the site was hit by a malicious script every 68 seconds. This is why patching is so important. Without immediate patching, Sonerai.net would be hacked 24-36 hours after a new exploit was discovered. d**n Script-Kiddies.

Then there was the time when Norton decided to blacklist Sonerai.net. I used my vacation time to stay home from work to correct the issue. The Norton event consumed hours of research, letter writing, and more letter writing. That was a long and extremely frustrating day.

-Scott

[oahupilot]

I think what Scott just discussed about patching and security lends more support to the idea of moving over to the EAA. They have a budget for this sort of thing and a dedicated staff.

[wbpace]

Thanks for the feedback Scott. Using your numbers, that totals to roughly 240-ish hours (or 1.5 man-months) a year, not including the Norton thing. That is more time than many guys have to actually work on their airplane!

Add to that the cost of hosting (leaving the EAA hosting option aside for the moment), perhaps the cost of incorporation (whether or not as a non-profit), etc, etc, well, I hope folks can see that it is not at all unreasonable to have a modest fee to support the site.

Requiring a user fee is, of course, for the new Board to decide, but I am putting this analysis out there to help educate everyone on just how large a commitment it is to run a site like this.

By way of example, check out vansairforce.net for the RV guys. The fellow running it does it as his full-time job(!) and relies partly on donations to feed his family(!!!). The Sonerai group is unlikely to match the size of his user base (nor the number of ads, although taking advertising may be something the Board should consider), but it will still give you a sense of just how much it takes to keep a top notch site going.

In short, it is still astounding to me how Scott made the old site available for free for so long, and the magnitude of what was lost when he had to pull the plug.

Bill

[patmc]

Good idea. I miss the old site.


Pat