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Post by juergen on Oct 6, 2011 1:38:54 GMT -5
Hi Jeff, as you know, I will do anything to help, to bring the Sonerai.net site back. One of the ideas is, to host the site in other country, like www.soneraiNet.de or .... With this change, I think, it shall not be too simple for stupid people to make problems for the community. The hosting can also be on .be or .it or .fr or..... with best regards Juergen
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ncam
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by ncam on Oct 6, 2011 3:32:17 GMT -5
I think that we need to move forward, actually back to old way it worked on the net. I am also in Tailwind group, but the sonerainet was better. I would love access to the database, there was a lot of stuff. Most Sonerais are in the US so it probably needs to be run from there but from a liability perspective somewhere off shore like Canada may be a better place for incorporation, also we need a way of discouraging nuisance posters. I wish there was a small charge for posting, it would stop spamming dead. But we need to maintain or roots to the past, there is a huge base of information from Fred etc etc that needs to be available and protected. Neville
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Post by juergen on Oct 6, 2011 4:45:23 GMT -5
Hi Neville, from technical point, there is no difference, where the domain is located, but it makes a difference from civil law, if the domain is outside US/Canada. If any bad guy will sue the admin, he must do it in the country, where the domain is located! (Example(not serious): if you crash your car to a wall, in US, you can sue the car company for millions because there is no note inside the manual, that you shall not crash to a wall. In the rest of the world, there is no chance to sue the car company because there is no note in the manual: the judge say: you are stupid...) with best regards Juergen (PS: I think the actually bad guy sits in US...)
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Post by wannabe on Oct 6, 2011 6:50:32 GMT -5
Hi All,
I thought that I might weigh in as I believe that there are others like me. I have not posted anything until now. I came to Sonerai.net and this site because I have an interest in one day building a Sonerai. I remember reading about the Sonerai II in the early eighties and I decided that I would one day build one. I own a set of plans but have no money for materials at the moment.
Currently I come to this site almost daily. Some call that lurking. I call it learning. If you charge for people to join or access this or another site you will not be encouraging people like myself to learn more about the Sonerai design and maybe one day build one. Please consider all of the "outsiders" in your descision making.
Thanks, Wannabe
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Post by propwash on Oct 6, 2011 7:02:41 GMT -5
hi jeff, what you propose is just what we need! lots of good comments from members, too bad we can't use them all, or can we... propwash
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peterzabriskie
Junior Member
"Did I make that part the best I possibly could have?" Unknown
Posts: 99
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Post by peterzabriskie on Oct 6, 2011 7:19:17 GMT -5
I think that we need to move forward, actually back to old way it worked on the net. I am also in Tailwind group, but the sonerainet was better. I would love access to the database, there was a lot of stuff. Most Sonerais are in the US so it probably needs to be run from there but from a liability perspective somewhere off shore like Canada may be a better place for incorporation, also we need a way of discouraging nuisance posters. I wish there was a small charge for posting, it would stop spamming dead. But we need to maintain or roots to the past, there is a huge base of information from Fred etc etc that needs to be available and protected. Neville Neville here is the link to Scott's post with the complete Sonerai.net Archive. It is the complete Sonerai.net and takes a while to download but well worth it. www.sonerai.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=53Jeff, as I wrote in my PM to you, In Favor. It is very heartening to read the level headed ideas here to get a great site going. What ever I can do to help I will. -Pete P.S. Got a Harbor Freight deer hoist to lift my engine into place, once I get it on my Fred Keip wooden wonder engine dollie! ;D
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dickf
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dickf on Oct 6, 2011 8:39:32 GMT -5
Go!
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Post by raceair on Oct 6, 2011 9:26:56 GMT -5
There have been a few comments about our connecting to the EAA with this....I am unfamiliar with how this works.......AND, personally, I want to thank Jeff for his efforts here, but I don't want to see him try to accept MORE responsibility surrounding all of this......It's hard to replace what Scott had done , but maybe that format is not possible to re-create.....Ed
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Post by Schmleff on Oct 6, 2011 9:39:22 GMT -5
There a lot of details to work out, including isolation of liability and involvement with EAA. These are the kinds of things the board will work out. At this point I just wanted to make sure the community is on the same page and agrees with the idea of a formal board.
As for nominations, I will wait a few more days to hear out opinions about the board idea. I will then open up a thread for nominations with the basic instructions/details of the nomination process.
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Post by schines on Oct 6, 2011 10:38:15 GMT -5
Count me in for what ever the group decides. The EAA thing sounds interesting, but I'm not sure how that works either. Anyone who is not an EAA member is missing out on a whole world of info and, in my opinion, EAA membership is at least as important as builder site membership. For the tech savvy guys, would it be possible to have a site with a "members only" section so people like Wannabe would have at least limited access? -Scott
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Post by phoenixbird on Oct 6, 2011 11:26:19 GMT -5
Schines
I like the idea of a members only area so that ppl like wannabe will have limited access. I feel we need to promote the Sonerai community rather then closing it up to "outsiders"
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Post by phoenixbird on Oct 6, 2011 11:32:35 GMT -5
I am all for having a Board to oversee the site. If a LLC is what is required to protect us in the futre then so be it. It is just a sad day when we have to protect ourselves from being sued for the free exchange of ideas. I bought N51SD (used to race as phoenixbird back in the V race days) and I have found this to be a fantastic site for information to help me get her back into the air. I would hate to see this site dissapppear. I am all for whatever is decided to keep this site open and running. A free exchange of ideas and a place for guys like me new to the Sonerial world to get valuable information from the guys with lots of experience and history with this great liittle airplane. I'm behinf you 100% Jeff.
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Post by oahupilot on Oct 6, 2011 14:07:12 GMT -5
So from everyones comments their might be a common consensus as follows
1. Shield the board members from litigation in the event something going wrong.
2. Keep the board open to outsiders/non members, for public reference and query
3. Dampen/moderate the forum board for issues (the be nice policy?)
4. Fund and host the site.
5. promote the exchange of archived materials and group knowledge.
I think a lot of the issues we face can be really put under the umbrella of the EAA and what they have done and know. The EAA has as its goal to support builders like us, I am pretty sure we could get a lot of support from them especially when it comes to legal counsel.
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Post by 1seatflyer on Oct 6, 2011 17:05:48 GMT -5
Hi Jeff, I'm for the proposal. The old site was a real treasure of all things Sonerai, and I support the efforts your making on this one.
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Post by privatepilot03 on Oct 6, 2011 18:13:28 GMT -5
Who owns the website? How will it be financed?
How does a website that is essentially a data and information exchange somehow become liable and need to protect itself against litigation by forming an LLC? This website should not be a business, simply a place to share information. If someone gets hurt because of something they read online, that's a real shame, but how do you sue a website? You sue the owner for letting someone post information that was nothing more than their opinion? I moderate (own?) the VW_Conversions list on Yahoo Groups. Hypothetically someone could offer up a bad piece of advice that could cause someone to do something to their engine that ultimately ends in a crash (which I sincerely hope never happens). So the guy that crashed his plane is going to sue Yahoo? What about the guy with a screen name on the group that offered up that bad info? Seems pretty thin and isn't not likely going to happen.
Ideally the website should be owned by a business entity that can write off yearly costs as a business expense. Forming an LLC might give us that entity, but how do you generate cashflow to maintain the website?
Has anyone talked to Great Plains (the seller of the Sonerai plans after all) about helping finance a website moving forward? Let the business simply own the domain and keep it registered. Non-financially vested 3rd parties (moderators) would be responsible for building and maintaining the website. Having private, individual ownership does not ensure a website long term. Any one of the dedicated guys who might volunteer to own the actual website could lose interest and build an RV some day. With that you lose interest in maintaining (financing) a website.
I think it's wise to have multiple folks in control of a new website moving forward, but in the end, but any single person financially responsible for said website could pick up their ball and go home at any time.
Full circle back to where we are today.
Chad
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