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Post by schrome on Nov 12, 2011 9:51:50 GMT -5
I don't consider myself experienced yet but 80 mph on final while slipping, slowing to 70-ish at the threshold and around 60 at touchdown. Mine stalls at 58.
Ed
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Post by soneraifred on Nov 12, 2011 11:25:42 GMT -5
My numbers are pretty much the same as Ed's. About 110 mph on downwind, 95 mph on base, 80-85 mph on final with 75 over the fence, and 60-65 mph at touchdown. That's if I'm doing everything perfectly, which I usually don't. The airplane is pretty forgiving if I add a few mph on final. It just takes a little longer for the speed to bleed off to touchdown.
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joelh
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Post by joelh on Nov 12, 2011 21:41:27 GMT -5
All good information. I am on the fence about buying a flying Sonerai. I have about 190 hours in 172's and bonanza with my only tailwheel being in a super decathlon and glider. The super d seems to fly about the same numbers 80mph on final. I am just hope a Sonerai is not too much for me.
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hans
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Post by hans on Nov 14, 2011 2:58:42 GMT -5
All good information. I am on the fence about buying a flying Sonerai. I have about 190 hours in 172's and bonanza with my only tailwheel being in a super decathlon and glider. The super d seems to fly about the same numbers 80mph on final. I am just hope a Sonerai is not too much for me. I'd expect you would do just fine. The Bonanza will also have prepped you for larger pedal inputs to counteract prop torque, especially during the take-off run. Hans
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hans
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Post by hans on Nov 14, 2011 3:05:47 GMT -5
Thanks Fred and Ed for your input.
Yesterday I took PH-ERA up for another ride, but had to abort the flight after about half an hour due to rather bad visibility. My glide path was better this time, rounding off directly behind the numbers. Still, I was a bit fast, so I needed half the asphalt runway (i.e. appr. 450m/1350') to come to a halt. Otherwise it was a non-event.
Next time (likely next Wednesday) I'm going to focus a bit more on the speeds you provided. Also I want to try and come in a bit higher and glide down in a slip a bit steeper.
cheers Hans
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peterzabriskie
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"Did I make that part the best I possibly could have?" Unknown
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Post by peterzabriskie on Nov 17, 2011 7:48:17 GMT -5
Hello Hans....snow yet? I have zero flying time in Sonerai yet, but I believe I have heard discussed about 90 mph......Found the thread. Great write up by Chuck Stottlemeyer here in Indiana. Reproduced entirely with out permission.
In addition to the good info about flight characteristics already posted, let me add this. Remember, every airplane is different, to some degree. We used to use Mouser for a Pitts S1 trainer. Anyone that can fly Mouser confidently will have no problem with the Pitts. On takeoff: Think smooth. Look straight forward. Pick up the runway edges with your peripheral vision. Stick in your lap for the initial takeoff roll for directional control. Gently open the throttle. (3 seconds) Don't be in a hurry to push the tail up. The rudder is small, and with some crosswind things can get dicey with the tail in the air until speed builds up. Just neutralize the controls, and let the tail come up when it wants. It's not hard to maintain directional control doing this. *very* small rudder corrections. Once she is up on the mains, just let her accelerate. It will come off around 70 or so. Mouser is an 1835, and needs speed to climb. Fly in ground effect until 90 indicated, and maintain 90 on climb. Stability is neutral, except in yaw, where a standard Sonerai is unstable. Take your feet off the rudder pedals, and she will yaw. Gotta put your feet somewhere... After your heart slows down.. marvel at the powerful controls and how much fun you're having. Anyone can fly it in the air, a very natural, honest airplane. As mentioned in the article, stalls are preceeded by a 4-5 mph aerodynamic buffet. You won't miss it. Excellent stall warning. Move the stick too fast at any speed, and you'll feel it again. Use very light pressure on the controls. Now for the fun part, landing: She slows down slowly. Plan ahead. 90 is the magic number. *Maintain* 90 for your first landing. Not 95. Not 85. Smooth smooth. Turn final and the airport, not just the runway disappears. Eeeks! Hmmm. Maybe we need to do a go around and rethink this. OK. Until you get used to the airplane, use one or the other of these methods. (1) A carrier approach, meaning a constant turn from base to final, or (2) Come in a little high, and slip to keep the airport in sight, leveling out right above the runway. I personally prefer number 2. Now you're right above the runway at no less than 80 for your first landing. *Look straight ahead, pick up the runway edges just like on takeoff.* Don't even think of looking out the side. Trust me on this. Gently flair into ground effect..it is marked.. and hold the 3 point attitude until she touches. You'll still be rolling pretty fast, so now isn't the time to quit flying. *Look straight forward* as speed bleeds off, and "make small errors, small corrections." S turn back to the admiring throngs thinking, "yeah.. I can do this!" Cheers! Chuck in Indiana
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hans
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Post by hans on Nov 17, 2011 12:46:36 GMT -5
Hi Pete,
no snow yet, but today it was around freezing temp for the better part of the day - bad visiblity too. Yesterday it would have been a flying day, but business intervened.
cheers Hans
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peterzabriskie
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"Did I make that part the best I possibly could have?" Unknown
Posts: 99
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Post by peterzabriskie on Nov 18, 2011 15:29:14 GMT -5
We have had one "dusting" of snow....-2.2C last nite. You and I both need to strive for, "Yesterday would have been a good work day, but flying intervened!" -Pete
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hans
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Post by hans on Nov 21, 2011 3:41:29 GMT -5
..... You and I both need to strive for, "Yesterday would have been a good work day, but flying intervened!" -Pete That's a thought I like a lot. Let's keep working on it
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joelh
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Post by joelh on Nov 28, 2011 22:45:40 GMT -5
Thankyou Hans, I am more worried about how touchy people say the rudder is. But maybe it's not all that bad
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hans
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Post by hans on Nov 29, 2011 7:36:06 GMT -5
Thankyou Hans, I am more worried about how touchy people say the rudder is. But maybe it's not all that bad the rudder is not touchy but the plane is short-coupled, and there is (almost?) no directional stability. This in turn means two things: - Due to the lack of directional stability you need to actively use the rudder to remain coordinated
- No stability also means there is little or no damping, which will give you the impression that the rudder is very effective. It is, but mainly because there is no damping/stability it needs to overcome...
I know of a French registered Sonerai IILS (the one I inspected but didn't purchase) that has small winglets added to the elevator to increase directional stability (see www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=183781). So far my rookie impressions... I need to put in more hours to find out whether flying coordinated all the time will become second nature...
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Post by chuck59 on Nov 29, 2011 19:26:53 GMT -5
So far my rookie impressions... I need to put in more hours to find out whether flying coordinated all the time will become second nature... It will. The first few flights are unnerving to most people because they haven't flown anything that reacts as fast.. not to mention the marginal stability. With a few hours under your belt, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. ;D
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joelh
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Post by joelh on Nov 29, 2011 20:36:30 GMT -5
Chuck-sounds like it makes a pilot out of a tri-gear jockey real quick! And Hans- it's a shame you didn't buy it, that a great looking airplane
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hans
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Post by hans on Nov 30, 2011 2:38:36 GMT -5
Chuck-sounds like it makes a pilot out of a tri-gear jockey real quick! And Hans- it's a shame you didn't buy it, that a great looking airplane Joel, I didn't buy it for all the right reasons, and found an S-II a couple of months later... Hans
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Post by chuck59 on Nov 30, 2011 9:07:44 GMT -5
I'll agree with all that Hans has said. I glance at the oil pressure early in the takeoff run, then look straight ahead. There's a post somewhere on the site about Mouser's characteristics. Fly the pattern at 90. Because of the low power of the 1835, you'll be a little behind the power curve at 80, and *way* behind at 75. I like to see 80 over the fence unless doing a short field landing. As Hans mentioned, airspeed control on the landing is difficult at first, and *extremely* important. YOU are the pitch stability.. That's the same question I have. Are Sonerai's a handful on the ground? I have seen what they can not be compared to but what aircraft would you compare them to? Super decathlon maybe? Thanks Again, as Hans said.. very small movements on the rudder pedals. Not at all like a Super decathlon, where you can actually move the rudder pedals and get by with it. ;D The Sonerai is very easy to handle on the ground after you break the habit of over controlling. The nearest similar airplane is a Pitts.
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